For instance, software development engineers generally come in at Level 59,. Don't give up.I'd appreciate it if you'd do a similar post on the 65 to 65 transition. The PM team loved having my technical expertise freely available, and I actually really like designing features too.Anyway, two simple things, but I think what Mini said about not doing this IN ORDER to get promoted is key. Yet, I know that a friend just got one. In particular I am at 64 for quite some time. Similarly, the best predictor of your success at the next level is your success at the current level! But anyway, EOF for that angle. I like such themes and everything that is connected to them. Second, the perspective of a different team helps you generalize about best practices and what works and doesn't work. After that I got 3 levels in 3 years and now at level 64. Buy a Principal a coffee. The first was the barter (a position exists that I qualify for - give it to me now and I will commit to staying with the team another year. ceo/vp/director/manager/lead etc. (Not). Thanks to Mini for the great information. Thankfully, those are relatively uncommon. But if you can collaborate with others you can help accomplish much more than youll ever be able to accomplish individually. It's a matter of human nature for most people not to want someone else to pass them up. Managers plan out promotion timeframes far in advance. Microsoft is so unique (and not in a good way) that you need to have blogs like this and focus on managing your career inside the hobbesian nightmare, rather than making good and cool software. Microsoft Compensation Software Engineer $ 80K $ 225K Average Compensation: $101,338 Senior Cloud Software Engineer $ 90K $ 175K Average Compensation: $128,000 Principal Software Engineer $ 90K. It operates through the following business segments: Productivity and Business Processes,. And I'm going to tell you right now, I'm 99.9% sure what needs to change is you. Senior finance leader with several years of experience as a member of executive teams within large Australian blue chip and global multi-national companies with broad and diverse background and wide-ranging experience. I'm a level 66 dev (architect). Unless you're an asshat, in which case see mini's comment about slapping yourself around and listening to what other's think about you.And in those huge orgs with all the noise it is really easy for folks to rest and *ahem* vest, so you are overlooked by default.The key as mini and others have stated is finding the tech and team you love and everything flows from there (because you will be so excited you will go home and work another 4 hours every night examining customer feedback, competitive products, etc. See next bullet. Everything else is irrelevent or works against your promotion. Microsoft Director level role - Level 66 - what should I expect from COMP sideYOE-15Current TC- 235k, Go to company page He himself is principal for quite sometime. Worked my ass off and finally get recognized as Snr contributor. * One final important thought that hasn't been mentioned here and that is very dear to my heart is one that is not only specific to 63 but also to 65+, 66+, and 67+, and it is about moving up when you are a female at MSFT. However, I think this is the first point where we see a non-trivial number of folks plateau. Difference between getting promoted to L65 and joining as new FTE at L65 is HUGE. So a sub role at L61 = corp L63 and vice versa.So from a sub perspective:L58 and below are relatively junior roles where you have zero influence outside of meeting your commitmentsL59 -> L60 is a tougher jump. I also don't know if this is the first step towards a lay-off, but for now, it seems we'll have jobs for a few more months.Ugh, not good, not good at all>I am a partner. One of my reports and I had that conversation not that long ago, and I explained to him that at 62, he can take on any task I'm asking him to do. Think of the guy in the other company, the guy who is building something that competes with you, with your team. Discussion: First off, I'm going to be hard-core about comments here. Oracle. The key thing is finding the right team and manager, along with the comments you made. Years ago we had a dev on my team who was very high IQ and very driven, but was driving his lead nuts. And to your boss. Good managers: In general, good managers realize that they need to sell their team's accomplishments. Benefits can add thousands of dollars to your offer. Let's connect and I will happily share more about my background and accomplishment and how I can contribute to the success of your organization. Its performance is compromised by your pandering to the RIAA and MPAA. Great Post! great post. Directors are usually senior principals (level 66, 67) or at Partner level. Good luck with that. Here's to you! then do you know what more you need to do? Do a search for people in those groups in NYC area and check their status to see who is hiring. As a member of the Microsoft UK Senior Leadership Team, Olaf leads Microsoft's retail and consumer goods . Join the Levels.fyi community to chat with employees at Microsoft and other tech companies. The estimated base pay is $243,438 per year. But power plays are at work and I get smacked when I try and take on extra work. As a L64 I find getting to 65 quite a wall. You can each help each other.I've gone from 59 to 65 so far, but maybe what worked for me won't work for you. If you find a boss who likes the kind of work you can do, follow him/her wherever they go. You might have the Microsoft Senior Career Stage Profile in front of you all marked up and broken into more sections in OneNote, but which ones matter most to your team? This number represents the median, which is the midpoint of the ranges from our proprietary Total Pay Estimate model and based on salaries collected from our users. L63 takes a bit longer but is also fast. You will not know the difference.Steve Steve Steve given the state of the company, are you sure you don't have anything else more urgent to do? I'm interested in reading your perspective and what advice you'd give to someone new to the company looking at a career path similar to your own. All of my peers are SDE II's, so L61-L62.The advice is simple:First, NAIL the fundamentals. They know that if the team does well, they will do fine.5. Fourth, repeat ad infinitum. My rent contract was renewed in September and I have to find another person or risk loosing a 1000 bucks, Mini,Asshole managers aren't unknown at Apple, but when they appear, it doesn't take long before the rest of the organization figures them out and isolates them. Seniority level Director Employment type Full-time Job function Management and Manufacturing Industries IT Services and IT Consulting, Computer Hardware Manufacturing, and Software Development. for 63 promo within a more clear timeline. One of the interesting things about the level structure that I find interesting is that you are always expected to perform higher than your level. At the beginning of each FY, I always asked, "I want to get Exceeded this year. I have seen and known many of my own peers who don't get promoted because of potential but the number of people you know in the leadership team. Without soft skills, you can't make 64 and certainly no chance at 65.I've seen many people transfer into MCS, level up, and then transfer out basically using it as a boost. And if you have a manager who thinks that way, then your manager is a doofus who will never help anyone succeed. work on your visibility. I'm a level 62 dev trying to get to 63. Think about why they're able to do that.These two lines really serve to summarize the incoherent blithering that was jcr's post. for people, who might claim that they do all this and still cant progress.. dude, either you are in wrong group or you have not introspected / taken feedback well or you are missing the whole thing by a mile. "Well please don't just tease us and leave it there. Somebody help me out here. IBM pulled themselves out of their decline by focusing on their customers. The higher you go, the longer it takes. Next, make sure your manager values your contributions and surpass their expectations, making yourself invaluable and not immediately replaceable. You broke the trust cycle so don't expect anything else. IMHO. Leverage your professional network, and get hired. This is usually how teams start to rot from the inside. First, they are moving *to* something that they think fits them better -- and bringing an enthusiasm for the new position to go with the better fit. Do you think I can find a way to do almost as well and stay here, in this job I enjoy?" It works like this: Senior (L64,63) - works on tactical efforts, writes code or works on projects autonomously, collaborates with others Great and timely post - thank you Mini! Is there a way one can dream of getting promoted in this noxious environment which is the oabg? So far, I haven't been successful. As HR Director, Claire helps drive the outstanding business impact, cultural transformation, and growth of Microsoft in the UK. If I ever do decide to come back to MSFT, I will do so as a level 68+ and nothing less. Yes, we have tons of info on the HR websites and yes, there are steps you should take. About Top-performing Senior Director in Digital Strategy & Commercial Development, with 25 years success in top-tier business across new Tech, data and digital in many sectors driving strategy,. I'm an SDE, so a large part of my time in the product cycle is spent fixing bugs. I'm at 62, have been for lo, these many years. Alternately, you can increase the scope of your own job and justify an increased level.So the only real question is, what do you need to do differently at the higher level? About 1/2 the team is staying, the other half is going to a number of different teams within the larger org. It's probably true that there's more to the story and that they actually have important skills that matter. Thanx for it. Know where you are in the stack and understand how you will rank higher next year.BTW, forgot to mention I was a manager for the second half of my career. Great post! sheesh, "We definitely need a new thread, things are starting to happen indeed. Lots of terrible mid level managers at MS. To the person from MCS who said it was easy to get to 64 in MCS - MCSinTheFieldI agree with you there, you can get to a L64 in MCS but try to ever transfer to another org as a L64. Your own work is part of the goal. Me? Shock and awe awaits [sic].Four errors in grammar and punctuation in a post of just 14 words? It appears on 6.3% of resumes. Stop thinking of your Mgr as your adversary and listen to what they are telling you. My biggest struggle has been getting good feedback on where I need to grow. I made it to L63 in a year (I was probably under leveled when I arrived). When (if) you are then promoted to 62, you are not expected to continue performing at a level 62 level, but rather a level 63 level.The reason that you have to perform at a new level before reaching it is to avoid the Peter Principle, being people promoted up to their level of incompetence. If you were in the running your manager would have told you / asked for ammunition by now. Is this confirmed? Take responsibility for defining the component in front of you -- is it really the right thing for the product/team? Microsoft Salary. At L63 you should be directing v-teams, serving as a lead or possibly even having direct reports. Experienced sales manager with skills in strategy, lead of direct reports, developing sales forecasts, products pricing and launching new products to the marketplace.<br>Proven abilities to manage key account relationships and large-scale projects.<br>Experienced in presenting to executive senior management, meeting with customers at CxO level and coordinating salesmen's Activities.<br><br . I'd like to hear some more experiences from MCS. You're cursed for life.2. Some related job titles areMarketing Director salaries with median pay of $163,348,Senior Consultant salaries with median pay of $123,519,Senior Product Manager salaries with median pay of $193,845,Managing Director salaries with median pay of $333,006. For those impatient folks who want to move up every 18 months, watch out. They make decisions that affect both their department and the company, making their role crucial in the pursuit of the company's goals. Because, except on the rare occasion, Microsoft and your team isn't going to change. That is why to get to L65 a VP level person must know your work and be able to recall your name without help. Avoid long-winded multi-point e-mails, boil down your points as succinctly and efficiently as possible. It's a knife fight to 63. L8=Partner/GM. Thats a very helpful answer. That is the guy to beat. The L64 guys should be able to influence their skip level orgs plus one or two groups outside of the skip org. Granted, you have to live in the greater NYC area, but it's a great place to be. : those titles are organization specific. In this article, we have explained the Job levels at Microsoft which starts at SDE and goes up to Technical Fellow. So, for those of you who are in orgs where it's 'easy' to get to L63 or L64 - think about transferring out BEFORE you get too high a level and paint yourself into a corner. It turns out that typically your immediate manager has little control, it's all decided at higher levels. Add your salary anonymously in less than 60 seconds and continue exploring all the data. Nowadays, having been there and moved up, I would highly prefer someone that already succeeded as a Lead at Microsoft than a star individual contributor. "a HR manager" is acceptable if HR is meant to convey a spoken "a human resources manager" rather than a spoken "an aich arr manager".haven't should have an apostrophe, yes. .css-1odorsr{display:-webkit-inline-box;display:-webkit-inline-flex;display:-ms-inline-flexbox;display:inline-flex;-webkit-align-items:center;-webkit-box-align:center;-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center;font-weight:700;}.css-1ln5qhx{-webkit-text-decoration:none;text-decoration:none;display:-webkit-inline-box;display:-webkit-inline-flex;display:-ms-inline-flexbox;display:inline-flex;-webkit-align-items:center;-webkit-box-align:center;-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center;font-weight:700;}.css-1dmvvgc{margin:0;color:#0060b9;-webkit-text-decoration:none;text-decoration:none;display:-webkit-inline-box;display:-webkit-inline-flex;display:-ms-inline-flexbox;display:inline-flex;-webkit-align-items:center;-webkit-box-align:center;-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center;font-weight:700;}Get your salary negotiated .css-1npej63{-webkit-user-select:none;-moz-user-select:none;-ms-user-select:none;user-select:none;width:1em;height:1em;display:inline-block;fill:currentColor;-webkit-flex-shrink:0;-ms-flex-negative:0;flex-shrink:0;-webkit-transition:fill 200ms cubic-bezier(0.4, 0, 0.2, 1) 0ms;transition:fill 200ms cubic-bezier(0.4, 0, 0.2, 1) 0ms;font-size:1.25rem;margin-left:-4px;}or your resume reviewed by the real experts - recruiters who do it daily. This will only lead us to a healthy and balanced distribution of levels across genders. If you have a good manager he/she will ensure the relevant peers know all about it. * It is true that working for the promotion should not be your only driver, but it is important for it to be "a" driver -- of course you should enjoy what you are doing while working to achieve that next level, but remember that you are not there to become a bench-warmer. I moved around 3 teams before I found one where I really enjoyed the technology and the people, and here I've flourished.So forget all the whining about politics and crap. Also, there's 2 ladder, management ladder and seniority ladder. If you don't have a manager like that or the manager cannot/will not set clear commits/accountabilities - when the freeze lifts, time for you to look at new areas where you can bring something to the table. How do you get the right job/work that will make the impact. ALWAYS ask for a promotion. Great topic. But if you start when you think you are ready and work with your manager toward the goal, you'll get there. I had an expectation to become principal this year. People who get stuck at the plateau are often referred to as disillusioned learners. Make them successful at their job. Go for the team that offers the best package right during the transfer. I only wish the internal MyMicrosoft blog had posts that were this valuable and insightful. If I was looking at reducing costs this isn't exactly where I'd set my sights first but again this is Microsoft we're talking about. I know to a certain degree that's all of us - but, if you're dealing with 2-3 a year or every other year then you need to get out. Now it's up to me to do whatever it takes to make *them* great, even if it doesn't benefit my product directly. Why cannot we have our address title reflect our level as everybody else in the company?Maybe because you are so overleveled (maybe not you personally, but MSN as whole), your bosses doesn't want rest of the company to make ruckus about that injustice (I have seen people moving from SDE II in Windows to MSN and getting promotion-on-transfer to SENIOR SDE, and they were not even hard-core devs). I joined Microsoft at L63 in Office and found it to be a freakshow of people NOT working together but understanding that no team work was better for getting a promotion FAR better than I did having come from the Valley. And I'm going to tell you right now, I'm 99.9% sure what needs to change is you. I can vouch for the efficacy of this mantra.MS definitely does a good enough job on career progression and offering diverse options. Is there much motivation to really fix Vista's perception problems?Machiavelli might note that intentionally leaving Vista's reputation in the toilet will make Windows 7 look all that much better when it comes out - allowing some of our VP's pride, ego's and bank balances to swell to truly epic proportions.
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