(unless theyre SWAT or something). Hello perpetrators, Lee Paige is clearly the gift that keeps on giving though our buddy Hunter Biden is a close second! As for Seals they have their own contract with Glock but can carry anything they want. Now when you lose your grip on lawn mowers or snow blowers they will not keep travelling foreword all by themselves. But this time, the sound bites used were different. Good job! UPDATE:We were just made aware of YouTuber BoomStick Tactical who produced this video the day before our post published. Everyone remember the video of the DEA agent shooting himself while explaining that he was highly qualified to carry a gun? Like many of our readers, weve been watching the slow drip, drip, drip of lawsuits accumulate over the past couple of years against SIG Sauer. . I wont argue theyre wrong, I dont own one, dont want to. Hes talking about trial lawyers recruiting clients whove experienced negligent discharges with P320s and suing the gun manufacturer. Pity that some of the most common reactions fall into two over simplistic categories: 1. He wanted to see how accurate the gun was, especially after the customer got it back after the voluntary upgrade. They've also been adopted as duty guns by law enforcement agencies across the country. He said there has to be something wrong with the gun if this is happening to individuals with this amount of training, this amount of skill.. Either the gun is defective or its not. Ever since the internet went mainstream I have read about the Sigs decline. Its also beyond debate that current production Sig quality is drastically inferior to what it once was, particularly the German made pieces. This subject has two prongs; One is the negligence of those who have shot themselves with 320s through violations of Rule 2, the other the possible mechanical design failing of the gun. That focus drifts. NEWINGTON - A Hillsboro man is suing Newington gunmaker Sig Sauer alleging his Sig P320 pistol fired, without him pulling the trigger, causing a bullet to be discharged into his thigh. Glocks have gone off when people attempted to holster them and after they have holstered them, some times way later after holstering them like the fellow that got into his pickup truck. Bagnell also represented Virginia Sheriffs Deputy Marcie Vadnais who sued SIG when she said her P320 went off on its own when she was removing the weapon from her belt. Vadnais was featured in the Nightline version of ABCs report. Dont quote the four rules of safety in your article when all the hotness in the gun world is appendix carry pointing something at an extremity and the photos you use showing front slide serrationsputting your hands fingers near the business end of the barrel, because press checks from the front is the way all the cool operator guys do it. Ill go so far as to say the first batch of Sig P320s did nothing wrong. The main difference is that the M&P never had the problem the p320 did with trigger mass. On Thursday, M.D. The same should hold true for the insane marketing of pistols like the totally unsafe Glock. Ron Cohen ruined Kimber and now hes doing the same to SIG. In 1982 the G17 hit the market and in 1983 they gave 30,000 pistols to the Austrian military at cost. A plastic gun that has a tendency to go off by itself. But SIG Sauer said it has rectified the issue with upgrades, including one made for the U.S. military which court documents, filed as part of one of the lawsuits, show resulted in substantial changes to the weapons internal design. A too light 1911 as some use in competition or God Forbid for carry- could jump the sear if dropped. Effectively: you must be this dumb to get this job. And on the flip side of the coin is the decades of denial by Remington on the 700 which Ive seen firsthand. Excellent work. It did not originally have this. Theyre just on a 30 year nap hoping what they did will carry them forever. A few Warbirds decloaking would make me very nervous if it wasnt sci-fi fantasy. Mine is very accurate. But then Im not a federal LE flunky who cant keep my booger hook off the bang switch, either. The Hide Armory. Have you ever put a handgun down with your palm in front of the muzzle? Which in and of itself is user error / misuse. He wanted TTAG to convey that hes pro-Second Amendment. I dunno if its a case of lowest bidders blues or what. The P320s and P365s were junk, plain and simple. While this incident occurred months ago, this erroneous media report is driven by multiple sources, including our competitors, and coincides with the imminent release of other Canadian military and law enforcement tenders, indicating the timing of its release is an attempt to improperly influence the procurements, the statement said. Police officers (maybe) do an annual qualification and thats it. Bagnell is representing a number of the police officers who have filed suits against SIG for un-commanded discharges, but wouldnt disclose the exact number. Fact is most SF carry what they want and the Marine Recon I know very well who has friends in that community told me many in the Navy NSW program still carry the Mk 25, they don want a striker fired pistol that can hydrolock in water. The fact that Shatner was doing Wrath of Kahn meet and greets at 90 years old kind of soured me. RKC, the first time someone presented me with a 1911 whose trigger rivaled my Pythons single action, I started wondering about that. L. LRRifleman . 1:07. Ive seen similar situations at our Municipal range. . The SIG P320, which has been manufactured since 2014, is known to go off without the trigger being pulled if it's dropped and lands on the ground at a certain angle. The linkage isnt, but the way the striker leg and sear face mate up, the two materials being MIM castings, the small camming action, etc. The SIG P320 has been the subject of numerous lawsuits, including one class action case, in the U.S. over injuries sustained because of accidental discharges. In the case of the 320, lightning is striking the same place an awful lot. https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/dea-agent-lee-paige-still-wont-go-away/. Glock's and Sig P320 are all designated as Double-Action-Only fire control mechanisms. The probable reason that some folks are saying that the P320 is unsafe is that there was a lawsuit filed in federal court in July of 2020 (Guay v. Sig Sauer) alleging that the 320 fired "un-commanded" without a trigger pull while in a holster. never got into the P320 It is to me a Range gun not a carry gun. A holstered base P320 allegedly had a mysterious accidental discharge without pulling the trigger. Yaaay! So even if, as the ambulance chaser claims, the striker leg could vibrate off of the sear face, it could not discharge unless the drop safety was also disengaged because the drop safety prevents movement of the striker sufficient to make the firing pin protrude from the breech face. Anyway my question for $600 would be: Did you have your 3rd wife killed? I know there are those who will vehemently disagree with me, and even disparage me but I have been following this issue from early on, BUT I recall CLEARLY that there have been dozens and dozens of discharges that could not be attributed to operator error and people experiencing these uncommanded discharges both before AND after getting the trigger upgrade. An x-ray (fluoroscope) of the mechanism in operation could show what, if anything, is happening inside the gun that might prove, or disprove, the contention that the gun is flawed. They habitually use their customers as the product testers by selling what are essentially prototypes while quietly implementing rolling revisions. Its difficult to believe thats a coincidence. Or you would have to have enough slide play for the slide movement to physically disengage the sear and striker leg mating surfaces. Trust a P365 with your life. Yes, its reliable, but no more so than most other major brands well known models. The weapon had a history of going off unexpectedly when it was dropped at a certain angle. You simply may not PREFER one make to another, or may simply dislike another make, but were to the point in semi-auto pistol production history where amongst the big brands, the only real distinctions are preference. Charlton posted to the online commercial forum Canadian Gun Nutz, describing the CBC News piece as inaccurate and promising SIG Sauer would release a statement. Well I jumped in bed with ma and pa , told them that the devil was in Arkansas. SIG says ABC had intended to include some of those other claims in their reports, but after SIG informed the network of the additional information that was uncovered, those cases werent included in either of the segments. Later when he was driving he shifted his weight and this caused the trigger to be pushed back further and it went off and shot him and the bullet then also blew a big hole in the floor board of this truck. COPYRIGHT 2021, THETRUTHABOUTGUNS.COM. They passed every state and national drop test requirement out there. Not too long after they sold a pistol to the public and United States military thats not even DROP SAFE?!? They both underwent full testing but while the Sig was the cheaper handgun ($1.50), it also quoted higher costs for magazines and spare parts, boosting the overall cost of the acquisition. SIG ultimately settled that lawsuit. Let us look at the history of other consumer products. After the accident the unit returned to using the SIG P226 they had planned to replace with the P320. Quite frankly, a sizable number of the LEOs that go there, would benefit from a Gun Safety 101 class. You couldnt ask questions. At rest, cocked, it may very well have enough oomph to set some primers off. ! only reveals ones immature emotional attachment to an inanimate object, which reveals a pretty childish worldview. 00:03. We will respect the ongoing investigation and will not offer further comment at this time, Bineau said. Sigs bid was low because they were still pissed after being beat by Beretta in cost. Dont care for them, not my jam. At least the Lion roars when he is hungry, the C.E.O smiles at you and when you turn your back he puts a knife right into it. It seems safe to assume that while SIG is coming up fast on the outside, GLOCK is still most likely the reigning champ in terms of the firearms most often carried by law enforcement and other government agencies. Not sure why it wont let me reply to you, but Ill reply to myself in the hope youll get it. They function as commanded every time. DND/CAF is not in a position at this stage in its investigation to offer insight into the potential causes because our investigation scope is broader than the technical aspect pertaining to the unintended discharge of the pistol.. My dad owned one and that is exactly what happened one time when he was using it. 3. I dont know nothing about Sigs, I do know any gunm that goes off when I lay it on a table gets sold with a warning and I never touch that brand or model again. Yes, but that did not mean the machine would be able to go on being marketed like that. I bought a P320 and went through the voluntary upgrade. These cops seem pretty dang stupid if they put loaded guns in gym bags and purses with other stuff and carry them around, especially a gun that lacks manual safeties. How about something more relevant. People of the Gun are probably familiar with the early problems the P320 had regarding drop safety. Sig P320 Accidental Discharge 2021 Perhaps nothing speaks more clearly to the need for a total recall than the fact that in 2021, over four years after Sig Sauer offered its voluntary upgrade, people are still suffering injuries and lawsuits continue to be filed. When a consumer product is likely to be operated in such a way that it causes accidents because it is way too easy to make a serious mistake because of human error when operating it the manufactures are told that the machine must be made safer. TTAG talked to Bagnell, who told us that he wants it to be known that he is not anti-gun and doesnt want to see more gun control laws in this country. Too Many Accidents The second, longer version of the ABC story again included comments from Joshua Harrison, the consultant ABC hired to independently assess the P320. Give me a break. SIG just cannot seem to make a striker fired pistol that doesnt have issues. Keep the phrase legal momentum in mind. Sounds like most of these cases were off-body carry. That wont last for long, the P320 (M17 AND M18) are already failing in the field. 2. But now, P320 is the subject. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Much has been made of Nimoys Spock being the most popular character in TOS, but Id argue that without Shatners over-the-top swagger and brash manner, the balance would be lost. I guess none got her the attention she wanted and a national coverage so she went in for the bang. You have entered an incorrect email address! Wow new finger grooves, crazy innovation. Going on Sigs reputation I bought a P320. So I think it is unconscionable, given the number of incidents of this gun defectively discharging without a trigger pull, would necessitate that someone order it to be recalled and only SIG can do that.. ABCs own hired consultant, who appears to have no dog in these fights, asserted that he could find no reasonable explanation for these claims and that he considers the upgraded P320 pistols safe for sale to law enforcement and the public. It may be a rotten trigger, but it does highlight the fact it has a much lighter trigger compared to classic semi-autos and revolvers. Note also that ABC didnt provide any context for the number of suits filed against SIG. Too expensive to use their customers as beta testers. Theyre cheering for a noose around their own precious Glocks throat. Frankly, I think that ship is the best looking sci-fi ship design ever, with the Excelsior a very close second. SIG is choosing to litigate their problems away. Fundamentally, the bits that the ambulance chaser claims are flawed function exactly the same way as a S&W M&P. First I have no problem with the Mk 25 or any other Sig thats metal. The safety WILL prevent the gun from firing with a trigger pull when activated, but it should never come to that. The more someone touches, loads, clears, cleans, holsters, un-holsters, or otherwise deals with their firearm, the higher the statistical likelihood that complacence kicks in. Google Keith Slatowski, is he lying also? A lot like carrying a cocked and locked 1911 but with the safety off. It was at that point that I knew the gun had a design flaw. The design was incorporated from Bruce Grays trigger kit around the time of the original drop safety fix. The military is much smarter and no, the gun is not junk. They have similar vertical sear engagement, but the M&P has more engagement width wise. how do I get one for my P320? Miraculously, no one was hit by the bullet, which ricocheted around inside the vehicle. If you can make the trigger move backwards, all bets are off. But when you set a gun down on a table, and the damn thing goes off seconds after you let go, that sounds like a defective gun. While it seems that I have a preference for battle ships, The Romulans had Warbirds. 2. It sure wasnt her fault though, because she was flooring the. Period. Additional questions about the Voluntary Upgrade Program are answered in the FAQ. Keep your finger off the trigger unless you are ready to shoot. She claims that her holstered P320 pistol went off while she was carrying it in her purse. 2) The p320 does have a half cocked notch. U.S. lawsuits The thing I hate is getting kicked around! At the risk of sounding superstitious lets review Sigs latest turd pistol. That is the point of most of the video at the end of the article. This is why we now have back up safeties on garden tractors and riding lawn mowers. Neither argument is relevant or very intelligent and certainly not useful. Bagnells and other lawsuits ABC claims at least 54 discharges and 10 suits against SIG describe instances of P320s going off dating back to 2016, prior to the upgrade. If the latter were to occur, the drop safety would prevent discharge because it would not be pushed up by anything. NO, SIG has a problem that they would rather fight in court. That took a lot. BAM. The second accidental shooting happened after police supervisors internally raised questions about the safety of the SIG Sauer P320. Second, your claim that the military is dumping because theyre problematic? Stinking Lawyers and quota cops. Sig makes a damn fine weapon and theres nothing wrong with it. For the moron Neanderthals of the Far Right who will scream its the operators fault and we do not give a shit about marketing more safer designed weapons, if such idiotic polices were followed for other consumer goods today we would not have safety glass, anti-lock breaks, back up safeties, child proof medicine caps and chemical bottles, back up cameras, kick back muzzles on chain saws and the list goes on and on. Sig started out rough, but a lot of agencies have decided that their modular chassis system is the way of the future. Sig P320 discharge while holstered. In June, Cambridge police Lt. Thomas Ahern filed suit, accusing Sig Sauer of selling a dangerously defective product after his P320 fired on its own while he was in the department's SWAT team van with six other officers. Harrison responded, No, I dont think the upgraded version should be recalled, in fact I think the previous version should be recalled so that everyone has the upgraded version.. Its pathetic how often these legal stunts work. Note that Harrisons comment about these claims possibly being the result of legal momentum were edited out of the longer Nightline version of the report. In a straight up Glock vs. Sig battle, the United States Marines chose Sig, and that was AFTER watching the P320 perform for four years. I call b-s on all these my gun magically went off. That said, I own multiple P320s, but all of them have the manual safety due to personal preference. The settlement requires the gunmaker to reimburse owners of . None of the current lawsuits appear to be in any way related to the now-fixed drop safety issue and most, if not all of the allegations seem to involve upgraded pistols or those produced after the drop safety problem was identified by SIG. 1.A rush to market, and as usual the blind greed of the gun companies who no longer test pistols before marketing them think it is cheaper (so the idiots think) to let the public test them. Seems kind of like a Sig apologist article. In my opinion, the only reason SIG would have done that is if they knew there was a safety problem with the original gun, otherwise they would not have done it., Scott says Harrison reviewed the claims in Officer Hiltons lawsuit and said, its unclear to (Harrison) what could now be causing misfires in the upgraded guns., Scott then asked Harrison if he believes the P320 should be removed from the marketplace. Again, these are examples the plaintiff in this case is using to support his claim that the P320 is prone to un-commanded discharges.. He points to it in the video. The P320 pistol is a dog. Get a dead trigger when the striker breaks. As they should. Attorney Bagnell held up the law enforcement officers he represents as examples of people who are highly trained in carrying and using firearms. Sig Sauer Inc. has agreed to settle a class-action lawsuit over its P320 pistol, on which the Army 's Modular Handgun System is based. Sigs suck and my Glock is awesome!. The Milwaukee police department has had 3 incidents of the Sig discharging while being in a holster sitting in a patrol car in 2023. So if, say, a person was to accidentally get shot through no fault of their own and need to sue, which specific cartridge/appendage combo would yield the most favorable least pain/permanent-damage : highest-payout ratio? The problem is non-existent. Heres the version of the report that ran later that night, during ABCs Nightline program . Companies stay silent Anyway around here they do. Right up front, the use of an ill-fitting/improper-for-the-gun holster instantly negates any idea of an unintended discharge being the fault of the design. . The problems associate with those pistols (and the P365) have long since been ironed out. In a world of "innovative" guns, this truly is an innovated design and a step in the right direction for the future of pistols. Fair enough. Were not saying that the suits against GLOCK are any more (or less) substantiated than those against SIG. When he opened the drawer the hinges pulled the Charters trigger. This is just blind greed using some careless doofus to sell a lie and cash in because a civil jury, like the average American voter, can be manipulated easily though emotion, tears and stories of anguish, pain and suffering at the foot of some super-rich evil corporations cold-blooded behest. Use a proper holster and follow other gun safety protocols. Everyone knows Glocks are the absolute pinnacle of perfection and have never had one single defect ever! And they would not have done that for no reason at all. First off, no joke on me. Lastly, ship-wise I have to go with the TMP-era refit Enterprise, regardless of Captain. The hype leading up to the P365 was pretty intense and the LGS sold a bunch of those. Capitol Police Officers Explanation for Shooting and Killing Ashli Babbitt Is Riddled With Problems, The City of Wichita Raked In Almost $200,000 Selling Seized Guns in the Last Five Years, State Judge Issues Order Blocking Enforcement of Illinois Firearms Ban Act Statewide, Federal Judge Grants Injunction Blocking Enforcement of ATFs Frame or Receiver Rule, Illinois Rep. Bob Morgan: Anything Stamped M&P is a Weapon of War, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-ZZ6pynGLM, https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/dea-agent-lee-paige-still-wont-go-away/, https://sofrep.com/news/dod-evaluation-says-armys-new-sig-sauer-p320-service-pistol-riddled-issues/, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0LUbLu6TqA, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsu6WsSQ2_g, https://millsentertainment.smugmug.com/William-Shatner-The-Wrath-of-Khan. They admitted their problem and fixed it. It provides another example of how the gun free zone purportedly keeps people safe by not only keeping guns away, but by requiring more discharges nearby. Then without any extra effort, the normal trigger pull caused the tab on the drop safety to sheer off. He takes your wallet and car and leaves the SIG. Depending on who you talk to you will get many different answers. Good thing you werent serious, thatd be terr..uh.oops. The modular SIG P320 is among the most widely-owned handguns on the planet. In 1974 if you bought a Colt 1911, you left the gun store and then immediately took it to your favorite gunsmith and said Make it work it with Super-Vels, please. You cant get away with that today. It somehow moved to the hinges of the desk. He is acting as a consultant in the Collette suit that was filed last week. So it never had a history of a potential valid claim for ambulance chasers to work off of. This gun had been voluntary upgraded. These suits allege that their ultra-popular P320 pistol can fire without the trigger being pulled. Kyle . Plastic crap! Such being the case, there very well may BE in inherent design flaw in the gun; We shouldnt just cast the thought aside as being beyond consideration and insist on blaming the problem on operator error.. I would trust the intelligence of a Gorilla in a zoo before any one in the Far Right. Sig P320 is just one of many pistols with Safety related. But breaking news here, skippy. There was nothing wrong with the Glock action, it was a training issue.
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